Editor’s note: This interview originally appeared on Icons Of Punk.com back in December of 2008 prior to the reunion of the band Sunny Day Real Estate. I'm re-presenting it to you here because A) it’s a really fun chat I'm proud of and B) for prosperity’s sake. Enjoy!
SUNNY DAY REAL ESTATE is easily one of the most influential bands of the last 15 years, especially for any band that the musical media has classified under the “emo” banner. But at the forefront of SUNNY DAY has always been singer/songwriter Jeremy Enigk, whose unique voice and melodies have always set them apart for their many contemporaries and imitators.
After SUNNY DAY disbanded in early 95, Enigk recorded his 1st solo album RETURN OF THE FROG QUEEN. SUNNY DAY REAL ESTATE got back together shortly there after and recorded 2 more albums together, HOW IT FEELS TO BE SOMETHING ON & THE RISING TIDE. Enigk, along with SDRE members William Goldsmith & Nate Mendel went on to form THE FIRE THEFT and released one self-titled record.
In 2006, Jeremy released his 2nd proper solo album WORLD WAITS, 10 years after his solo debut with FROG QUEEN. Currently, he’s wrapped up his 3rd studio album OK BEAR which is scheduled for release February 2009. He was kind enough to chat with IOP and answer all of our questions about his entire music career. Read on! – By Rob Galluzzo – 12/08
Rob Galluzzo: Jeremy, how are you, sir?
Jeremy Enigk: I’m good!
First and foremost, thank you so much for taking the time out to talk to me.
Absolutely!
I’ve been with you since the “Thief Steal Me A Peach” 7 inch.
Wow!
So this is a total thrill for me.
Right on.
So, you have a new solo record coming out called “OK BEAR.” You went and recorded it in Spain, was it?
Yeah, in a town called San Feliu, which is near Barcelona.
What was the motivation to recording an album out there as opposed to your comfy home studio?
Well, I have a friend out there who owns a label, and he’s a friend I’ve had for years. Eventually, he just asked me if I wanted to go to Spain to record a record. He had a studio and some producers in mind and musicians. So, he asked, “Hey, what do you think? I’ll pay for everything. Just come out and do your thing.”
Wow. If it’s free studio time, how could you turn that down?
Yeah, it was an amazing opportunity. You just can’t refuse one of those offers.
This is the first time where you didn’t come prepared with an arsenal of pre-written songs. You sat at the piano and wrote brand new music on the spot. What was that experience like compared to the way you’re used to writing? Was it more challenging? Surprisingly natural? How’d you approach writing this record in that way?
It was actually pretty easy. Because, I’ve done it… I’ve written enough songs that it’s pretty easy to know what to go into next. But also, what made it incredibly easy was that the guys I was working with were extremely prolific musicians. They were able to take anything that I wrote and sort of turn it into a cohesive song. I literally would sit down and write something really quick and hand it off to them. And they would do whatever they wanted with it. That was cool on one level, because it was very liberating for me. I didn’t have to work too hard on it. And also, everything sort of became a surprise. I wasn’t even aware of where it was going to go until we were done with it. So that’s how the process went.
It sounds like you’d start with an idea and the musicians you worked with would give you some options you could go with it?
Well, yeah. I mean, they didn’t give me any options. They did whatever they wanted. (Laughs) And that was cool to me, to an extent. That was the hardest part trying not to edit or not being allowed to edit myself too much, because I wrote the whole concept going in in the first place.
When your released “WORLD WAITS”, I was pleasantly surprised to see a few tracks that I’d recognized from your earlier solo tours; songs such as “Damien Dreams” and “Burn”. Do any familiar tracks appear on “OK BEAR” or is it strictly new material?
No, it’s all new.
I’m still holding out for a studio recording of “Asleep Under Last Weeks News”! (Laughs)
Oh ok. Well maybe, ya know? And I got some other old ones too that I was thinking about recording in the studio. Songs I used to play live a lot. But… we’ll see.
I wanted to ask you about that material. One of the things about your fanbase is that it’s very unique. I personally have never encountered anything quite like it. I’ve made friends on-line solely based on saying that I was a fan of your music and then they’d forward me links to these servers that host tons of MP3’s of your unreleased solo stuff from shows you did post-FROG QUEEN. That’s pretty amazing to me! The demand for unreleased songs that haven’t been properly recorded yet. Is that interesting to you? The idea of the fans kind of taking it into their own hands?
Yeah, I actually went to a website that has all of it. And I was blown away at the songs that I had forgotten that I even used to play. And… I was kinda bummed too. Because… I didn’t release or record those songs for a reason. Because I didn’t think they were very album worthy at the time. Yeah, it’s amazing that everything that you do is recorded and everybody knows about it. Even like the things that to me are totally obsolete. It’s amazing. I don’t know what this website is, but it’s got everything. It’s pretty crazy.
Back when you were on the FROG QUEEN tour, I was penpals with Anita Perkins who was part of your live orchestra. I know she mentioned back then that you intended to record the 2nd solo album and play a lot of the orchestrated instruments yourself. Obviously, SUNNY DAY reformed and it put your 2nd solo album on hold. But, did you ever begin recording a 2nd album for Sub Pop?
Yeah, well we started a 2nd solo record (for Sub Pop) and actually recorded one song with Anita and actually some of the other string players. And that was the first attempt that I ever had at completely writing all the music myself, without Mark Nichols who did RETURN OF THE FROG QUEEN with me. But that was the only song. And then, shortly after that SUNNY DAY got back together, and all my songs that were meant to be for a solo record were moved to SUNNY DAY REAL ESTATE. Some of the songs on HOW IT FEELS actually.
A few years ago, when you first started recording “WORLD WAITS”, you hopped on the message boards and mentioned a potential live THE FIRE THEFT DVD, from a Seattle show? Is that still happening? Whatever happened to that project?
Yeah, actually – we sent it into a place and had a meeting with some guys about gathering all this material and editing it. I really don’t know what’s going on with that. That was about a year ago, and I haven’t really heard anything about it since. I think the reason why is because they’re sort of doing it pro bono. Also, there’s so much material, because it’s not just a live DVD anymore. The guy Maury (Duchamp), who was filming it unfortunately passed away, but he toured with us for quite a while. And filmed tons of shows, tons of interviews with us, and some backstage stuff. We figured we should probably do something more like he had in mind, more of a bigger documentary of the whole thing. So it ended up becoming a bigger project then we anticipated. And mainly to stick to what Maury wanted, in memory of him. He wanted to do a full-on documentary, but he wanted it to span over a long time. Unfortunately now that’s not going to happen.
Well, I’m sorry to hear about your friends passing, but I hope one way or another we’ll get to see his footage at some point. It’d be a fitting tribute.
Thank you.
It’s interesting because when you approached the lyrics for THE FIRE THEFT, this is one of the first times you weren’t writing lyrics with Dan, and I read you saying that you really wanted to say something with THE FIRE THEFT record. I think you accomplished that with songs like “Chain”, “Sinatra” and “Heaven”. But even before that, I thought you had a lot to say on THE RISING TIDE. I consider it to be one of the best things you’ve done lyrically.
Wow.
Take a track like “Killed By An Angel” for example. It wasn’t obvious to me immediately, but it’s a brilliant analogy for being killed by heroin use. Or at least that’s what I took from it…
Yeah, that’s totally… Wow, I’m glad you picked up on that.
I thought that was brilliant. “Faces In Disguise” is my favorite SUNNY DAY song. There’s a lot on THE RISING TIDE that I think lyrically is among your best work. I was wondering from your perspective, what stands out from THE RISING TIDE? Anything stand out from that record that you’re particularly proud of?
(Pause) Well, I have to think about that. I have to think about the songs and what’s on there. (Laughs) “The Rain Song” is a beautiful love song. That’s probably one of my favorites on the record. And just to clarify, that’s mainly Dan’s writing (lyrically) on that record. When we were recording it, as usual I would have main themes and concepts for the lyrics like “Killed By An Angel” and things for him to write around. But I was just so busy, because I was playing bass on that record, and I had my hands sort of in everything musically, that I was just like, “Dan, can you please just write the lyrics? I can’t even sit down with you.” And on a huge bulk of it, he actually spent a lot of time just writing (lyrics), so I can’t fully take credit for the majority of the lyrics on that record, so…
Multiple kudos to Dan as well, but it’s fantastic work from both of you. The first 2 SUNNY DAY albums are among my favorite sounding recordings, and I attribute a lot of that to Brad Wood, who you guys later reunited with for THE FIRE THEFT album. Can you talk a little bit about your working relationship with Brad? He’s engineered so many albums that I love. What did he bring or add to the first 2 SUNNY DAY records, and how come he didn’t record the latter 2 SUNNY DAY albums?
Well, obviously Brad is a pro, first and foremost. We had been listening to the Liz Phair “Exile In Guyville” record. So we knew right away that we wanted this guy to produce the (first) record, because of the raw sort-of indie quality recording that he had on that, yet still polished. Working on the first 2 records with Brad was amazing. There was inspiration there when I had no inspiration left. He’d sit me down and talk to me for about 2 hours and just tell stories. It had nothing to do with music or anything, he would just tell stories. And by the end of the conversation, I’d be completely rejuvenated, and ready to go into the studio and go into the vocal booth and just scream my face off. He’s also a great producer in that he can hear things, and gives you confidence in what you’re doing. A lot of times I’ll be unsure. But he’ll go, “No. That’s it. That’s the take.” He’s very decisive. I’m a very indecisive person, but he’s very decisive. He’ll say, “This it the take. This is the way the song should go.” And I’ve always appreciated that in producers who actually do their job rather then expect the musicians to just come up with everything. We probably didn’t work with him on the other 2 records just because we wanted to take a departure and do a different style record. A band constantly I think needs to change in order to keep themselves interested, to keep the fans interested. Change is good. That’s why we went with different producers later on.
Was it true that the way HOW IT FEELS TO BE SOMETHING ON came about was that you & Dan were asked by Sub Pop to help prep a rarities album collecting tracks for all your 7 inchs and were asked to perhaps record a few new songs to compliment that rarities album? And then that led to you guys deciding to get back together?
Yeah. That’s exactly what happened.
Was Nate Mendel a part of this as well? Was it all 4 of you when you were in the preliminary stages of getting back together for HOW IT FEELS?
No, we had been talking to Nate about it. And, he wanted to try to do it, but… he just couldn’t. He was way too busy with the FOO FIGHTERS. And I just don’t think he was ready to really jump into the chaos of SUNNY DAY anyways. (Laughs) He probably thought “FOO FIGHTERS? Or SUNNY DAY? I think I’ll go with the band that’s probably not going to break up.” (Laughs)
I really love “LP2” or “THE PINK ALBUM”, however you’d like to refer to it. I caught SUNNY DAY several times in your original incarnation on tour with SHUDDER TO THINK. At the time, although “DIARY” was the only album you guys had, you were already playing a bunch of songs from “LP2”. I always felt like the songs on LP2 had a SHUDDER TO THINK influence, at least in terms of doing odd time signatures. (“5/4”, “Theo B”) Were you guys influenced by your frequent touring mates?
Absolutely. When we started out as a band a huge influence on us was really anything from Dischord. SHUDDER TO THINK specifically – You know, Craig Wedren’s voice gave me the courage to… sing like a girl, and not feel weird about it. (Chuckles) Because I typically have a high voice and I like pretty melodies. So we were coming out of hardcore and punk rock, and I wasn’t sure if the punk rock scene & the hardcore scene that we were a part of was going to accept ultimately what I really wanted to do, as opposed to the screaming heavy stuff. Yeah, they were a huge influence on SUNNY DAY.
You opened for them the first few times I saw you guys, but when you came back to NY for HOW IT FEELS, I remember they opened for you, which was great.
Yeah… Ya know, I felt really bad. And I think some of them might’ve been kinda bummed? (Laughs) They probably thought, “Yep, these guys were opening up for us and now they’re headlining the show.” That’s just how it was set up though.
Why have the lyrics to “LP2” never been publicly available? I remember you doing a web-chat once, and someone asked you about a line on “THE PINK ALBUM” and your response was, “Wow, that’s not what I say. But that’s really beautiful.”
Yeah. (Laughs) Well, I mean we had broken up before we recorded the record, and we just decided we have all these songs, so we’re going to record them, even though we’re going to be inevitably breaking up. So, we broke up and we just felt like we were done. We put no energy into the artwork or into anything. Sub Pop had no idea what artwork we were going to have for the record, so they called William (Goldsmith) finally and asked, “William. Nobody’s responding. We need artwork if we’re going to put it out.” And William was just like, “Ah, just make it pink.” And… that’s why it’s pink. That’s why it’s so simple, there’s no lyrics or anything. And also, on a lot of songs, there aren’t lyrics! In a lot of cases, we never sat down to write them, because we just wanted to get it out of the way as fast as possible. So I just sang a lot of gibberish, which makes it really quirky. (Laughs)
(Laughs) The truth comes out! As fans, we heard your gibberish and made up beautiful lyrics out of them! (Laughs)
(Laughs) My favorite is the Japanese translations.
I have seen those on-line and they’re totally off.
Those are amazing. (Laughs)
Ya know, and it’s funny. I don’t know if you ever caught this, but hopefully you’ll get a kick out of it. Like you said, “LP2” were songs that you had at the time and you just put them all together. But I always found this underlining theme of fairy tales through out that whole album. I thought you were trying to do interpretations of fairy tales. Because “Song # 8”, starts with the lyrics “Rain song” and you later say, “Fingers stain my gold.” I thought you were referring to a leprechaun finding stained gold at the end of a rainbow. With “Waffle”, it sounds like you’re saying “Then I saw the magic glowing out of your hands”, which I thought was a wizard. And you have a song about a space cowboy named “Rodeo Jones”.
Wow! No we weren’t doing that. (Laughs) But wow.
Speaking of great titles, “Bucket Of Chicken”, was that meant for THE CROW soundtrack? Or did you record that for “LP2”?
Yeah, actually that was for THE CROW. And that’s probably one of the last songs we wrote before we broke up, well, broke up for the first time. In fact, I actually called the band – we had studio time booked the next day. That’s when I called the guys and told them that I needed to quit the band. And we went into the studio and recorded “Bucket Of Chicken” the next day.
Oh my. I recall a show where someone requested it and Dan said, “We’re never going to play “Bucket Of Chicken”.”
Yeah. There’s no way I can physically do it. I can’t sing and play that guitar line at the same time. It’s way too hard.
I have to know. What’s wrong with the state of California? Why did all 4 members of SUNNY DAY never play there properly?
Well, we actually have…
All 4 original members now?
Ohh, ok…
I got ya!
Yeah, you did. Yeah, I don’t know. That was Dan’s thing. We were planning on going on tour, and Dan just refused to go to California. So we just accepted it as it was. And eventually, it became kind of a funny thing. It was like, “Why would we not go to California? In fact, it’s kinda rad.” It doesn’t make any sense! We were still selling records there. He eventually got over it and we played California.
I hope that someone didn’t break Dan’s heart in California and he decided to curse the entire state over it. That would’ve been sad.
Nah. I think there was a rumor that it had something to do with the mafia. (Laughs)
I love that on the recent acoustic tours, you’ve been playing material from all of your bands and all your discographies. The great thing about it is I find all the SUNNY DAY or FIRE THEFT songs translate really, really well into acoustic versions. I know legalities may be an issue, but have you ever thought about doing a live album? Or perhaps a studio acoustic album of those tracks?
No, not really. I mean, especially with the SUNNY DAY stuff. For one thing, I only play the songs that I wrote. And even then, it’s kind of weird. I had an experience the other night where I was playing “In Circles” and I turn around to the amp like I did to that song every time I played it live. And I turned around to face my amp and face William, and… William wasn’t there. And it was really weird. I thought, “What the hell am I doing?” William’s not here. I don’t see Dan. I don’t see Nate. I… guess I’m not really answering your question. (Laughs) But, it’s a weird experience.
I understand. Those songs, they’re your “babies” collectively with those guys. You feel like you’d want to ‘see them off to college’ together.
Sure.
With “WORLD WAITS”, you launched your own record label, Lewis Hollow. And your new album will be on your own label. Although you & your band members have been coy about it, you guys weren’t always pleased with the way Sub Pop or later Time Bomb handled your material. I know first hand what a terribly frustrating thing that is. So, what have you learned from your experiences dealing with those labels that you’ve been able to apply with Lewis Hollow Records?
I think the biggest thing is… between the music, and having somewhat of a built in fanbase, it is possible for me to actually make a better living doing it myself, then on a label. No offense to any label that I’ve been on, but the system the way that it was and is, is kind of robbery. I mean… the musicians get a really small percentage and they hardly see any money unless they sell a million records. And that… was the biggest thing. It’s really hard for a musician to make a living. That’s the way the system is, and that’s the trade off, because a record label does have the money to put into publicizing your record, or tour support and that sort of stuff. You can get out there a lot easier, you just don’t see the backend. That’s the biggest thing I’ve learned.
For most bands, they make all their money from touring and selling merchandise.
Right, merchandise is huge.
I know there’s record labels now that own merch on their bands…
Wow.
So sadly, a lot of bands these days have a really shitty deal. But quite frankly, with the internet these days, you’re far better off putting out your own stuff.
Yeah. I hope so. This “OK BEAR” is going to be the first real release on my own. “WORLD WAITS” wasn’t really a release on my own. It ended up being more of a label deal. So we’ll see. I’m definitely curious and exited to see what happens when after the record is released. I’m really hoping that it’s good.
I can’t wait to hear it. I’m sure it’s too early to say, but are you thinking about the next record, the next tour, etc?
Yeah, I hoping to (do another record). I was just talking about it a half hour ago, how I want to go record a new record again! I just don’t know how I want to do that yet. I have songs – I always say yeah, I want to go home from tour and record a record. But it always ends up being a year, 2 year long process either way. As soon as I get a chance, I need to jump in and just start swimming with the next one. But, I’ll be touring for “OK BEAR”, that’s definitely a priority. I’d rather be recording then touring, but touring is a big part of releasing a record.
Something that’s always been on my mind – I always wanted to ask about the cover images for the latter 2 SUNNY records, HOW IT FEELS and RISING TIDE. I love the imagery for both of them. The cover of HOW IT FEELS, is that a tattoo that you have?
Yeah.
The star, I just recognized it on an old SUNNY DAY bootleg video and saw it on your arm long before HOW IT FEELS came out. Is there any significance to that image? What does it mean to you personally and to that record in particular?
Well, that’s Dan’s design, and the moment I saw it, I loved it, and that was that. I loved its simplicity. Ya know, I’m not really into art too much. But the more simple, the more I love it. And that’s it. I just saw it, and thought I want that on my arm, and I also want that to be the cover of a record. Now, I wish I didn’t have any tattoos. But… it’s on my arm forever!
A constant reminder, pal! (Laughs) Now, the cover of THE RISING TIDE is actually a famous “bronze angel” statue in Vancouver, I believe. Was there any significance to using that for the cover image?
Well, the photographer who took it was just walking around there and took an amazing picture and said, “Hey, I’d like to submit this as a possible cover”. We loved it. It’s brilliant. It obviously fit in with “Killed By An Angel” just using the angel. It sort of fit.
It definitely encapsulates what that album is about.
It was really an amazing convenient coincidence, really, and not so much of a planned thing.
I’m sure you hear this all the time, but I can’t not ask this… In terms of the prospect of you getting back together with SUNNY DAY REAL ESTATE, you’re often quoted as saying, “probably not, but never say never.”
Right.
So, realistically, what is keeping the 4 of you guys from getting back together? Is it a timing issue? Is it just that everybody is busy with what they’re doing now? What’s keeping you guys from making music together again?
Well, it’s history and our past. It’s um… well, when you break up with a girlfriend, it’s not likely that you’re going to get back together again. And it’s sort of the same thing. But… there’s still always a possibility. We do talk about it! Nate has been instigating a reunion. We talk about it seriously, and it’s a huge possibility. That being said, then it’s just a matter of details. And then it comes down to getting everybody together, and coming up with a real cohesive plan to do it. I don’t know if we really have the energy to do something like that. The SUNNY DAY machine is such a… it’s such a monster! And it takes over, it has a momentum to it that none of the band members can really control. So the moment we say yes or start doing something, it’s going to take off. Like a snowball, it’s going to turn into a huge, freakin’, giant… whatever. (Laughs)
So many bands attribute SUNNY DAY REAL ESTATE and you in particular as being their biggest influence, and yet I don’t hear SUNNY DAY in a lot of these bands that say that. But it is interesting to see how you guys have slowly permeated music pop culture. An example, I have a friend who manages a Hot Topic. And they’ve got a mixed CD for in-store play for the holidays of popular “classic” music. On this mix are bands like QUEEN and DAVID BOWIE, and early GREEN DAY, JOY DIVISION, SIOUXIE and, sure enough… SUNNY DAY REAL ESTATE.
Wow.
So, you guys are sandwiched between QUEEN and DAVID BOWIE at the playlist at Hot Topic this holiday season.
That’s amazing!
That’s really, really cool! I’m also amazed – I did a PROFILE piece on SUNNY DAY REAL ESTATE, and in preparation, I went on You Tube and was amazed by the videos I found. The band PARAMORE does a cover of “Faces In Disguise” that they played during their most recent tour!
I’ve actually seen one of those videos and I think it’s amazing. I was absolutely flattered! Because, the singer, the girl (Hayley Williams) has an amazing voice! So, to see her sing it, that’s super flattering to me. I did see that too. From time to time, I will You Tube old SUNNY DAY videos, and I came across that.
Well, Jeremy, I really wanted to thank you again for taking the time out to talk to me and I really appreciate it.
My pleasure!
